Comments on: Ecology and Mathematics: perspectives from undergraduate students

By: My UG students react to E. O. Wilson on math in biology | Dynamic Ecology

My UG students react to E. O. Wilson on math in biology | Dynamic Ecology — Wed, 01 May 2013 11:56:30 +0000

[...] Buddle had his undergraduate students read E. O. Wilson’s recent editorial and then discuss the role …. Inspired by Chris’ idea, I also asked my undergraduate students to read and react to [...]

By: Artem Kaznatcheev

Artem Kaznatcheev — Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:36:24 +0000

The concern about how mathematics is taught really resonated with me.

Although at some level, mathematics need to be taught as a separate field on its own (when you focus on proof), the things taught in high school and introductory University courses should not be independent of application. Most of the math a typical scientist needs to learn can be taught in physics, ecology, and other applied classes and not separate from them. In most intro math courses, the profs already try to “motivate” the math they are teaching with physical intuition, why not take this to its logical conclusion?

I definitely learnt more math trying to solve physics problem in high school than I ever did in my math classes.

By: Expiscor (19 April 2013) | Arthropod Ecology

Expiscor (19 April 2013) | Arthropod Ecology — Fri, 19 Apr 2013 13:51:20 +0000

[...] links between Art and Science. The debate about “E.O. Wilson versus Math” inspired a discussion in my ecology class, but coincidentally, a friend of mine also pointed me to this truly lovely writing about [...]

By: Jim Thomerson

Jim Thomerson — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 19:55:54 +0000

i didn’t make an aeronautical engineer because I had real problems learning calculus. I made a D in college algebra the second time through, so that was not surprising. Anyway, I ended up a biologist, and was able to do enough math to do it myself, or find someone who could. I had productive and enjoyable career as a biology professor, and build and fly model airplanes as a hobby. So I am a living example of what Wilson was talking about, I suppose.

By: Chris Buddle

Chris Buddle — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 19:20:57 +0000

Thanks Barbara! Great comment. I think you have captured effectively a lot of the sentiment from the class – you don’t want to turn people off science because of (potential) issues they may have with math. It’s just such a shame that a bad experience with math, perhaps during high school (or earlier) can really turn people off from pursuing disciplines that use math. This is the heart of the problem, I think. We need really great teachers – and ones that show the beauty of math…in all its applications but as well as in its fundamental sense.

By: Barbara (@barbalink)

Barbara (@barbalink) — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:07:58 +0000

Math and sciences go hand-in-hand, they always have and always will. IMHO – math is a skill that can be taught, fostered, and practiced. Passion, curiosity, and a love of research or science are traits that are harder to teach. Thus I fully stand behind EO Wilson when he encourages students that if they love science to go for it and not stay away if they fear their math skills are not up to snuff. I have had many students with inquisitive minds and passion for natural sciences confide in me that they dream of research or grad school but ‘suck at math’. What a shame it would be to lose these future bright scientists due to their apprehension of math.

Personally I was always pushed into advanced math in high school/university due to my grades but the way that it was taught it never really stuck with me. The statistical tools I learn now that I can see applied to my own work – now that sticks! I wish more undergrad classes would follow your example Chris.

By: Chris Buddle

Chris Buddle — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 11:03:46 +0000

Derek – thanks for the perspectives – they are personal and insightful. Connections between content in different courses is key, and on the whole, I don’t find this is done well, at high school or in University. Remembering piece x, y and x without seeing clearly how x, y and z fit together is a real problem.

I do have some very astute students in the class, and they really spent the time to read the material, digest it and think carefully about it. It helps that the entire course is quantitative, so they have had an entire term to appreciate (or dislike!) the way that math was fully integrated into ecology.

By: Chris Buddle

Chris Buddle — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 10:58:25 +0000

Thanks Terry – what is amazing to me about Gotelli’s book is that MANY students hang on to it and tell me (long after) that they found it incredibly useful, and many that go on to grad school still refer back to that book – in many cases, it’s because of HOW the material is presented in addition to the content itself. I think if Gotelli’s book (or an analogous one – is there one?) were used more often in UG ecology courses, the discipline would be better off in the long run…

By: Chris Buddle

Chris Buddle — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 10:55:04 +0000

Joe – great comments, thanks for taking the time to write it. It reinforces many things that the students said – the way math is taught in high school is often unidimensional and doesn’t do the discipline justice – irrespective of how math is integrated into other disciplines!

By: Derek

Derek — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 02:03:29 +0000

Great to hear some students’ perspectives on this, the responses I read were all angry ecologists/mathematicians. Wilson’s WSJ piece is essentially a summary from one of his book chapters, which I’m reading through right now, and I’ve gotta say–I agree that some of the responses to his piece were just vicious. His piece was focused on encouraging young scientists to enter the field/stick with it, so of course he’s going to argue that you don’t need to be a wizard of math to be a scientist: and that is EXACTLY what budding scientists need to hear.

I heard similar views from my professors when I was realizing I wanted to study biology, and I was worried about the math, and it helped me gain the confidence I needed. Math is certainly important, but so are other skills. It’s truly a shame that teaching math through primary and secondary school is so fragmented, and I think that’s why people shy away from it. Each year is supposed to build upon the previous one, but that connection is never explicitly stated or reviewed (in my experience at least), so students are just expected to remember many different concepts that might not be closely connected in their minds. In high school, I went from Geometry to Algebra II, then to Pre-calculus, where I needed to remember some stuff I learned in Geometry but hadn’t thought about for a year! It was very confusing.

It sounds like you have some astute students–the angry responses were distracting from the take home message of Wilson’s article: if math isn’t your best subject, don’t give up. It’s not an insurmountable obstacle and can be learned, just like any other subject. That is some encouraging advice for struggling undergrads.